Pismis 27 / NGC 6882

[SteveGoldberg]

ver 4.0j R19 Visual Pro

When doing a Designation Search for Pismis 27, in the "Search Results" box it returns Pismis 27, further down in "Data for Currently Selected Target" shows NGC 6882.
   

However, using the Designation Search tool for NGC 6882, it cannot find it. The top entry in the "Search Results" box is NGC 6885.
And looking at the Info for 6885, it shows the "Also Known As" NGC 6882.
   

In the Harold Corwin's NGC list he has 6882 and 6885 equal to each other.
   

Furthermore, if I'm not mistaken, NGC numbers are basically in RA hour order. 6882 is near the end of the hour order at 20H. And Pismis 27 is at hour 6H

So, should Pismis 27 be linked to NGC 6882 as an Alternate ID?

Steve Goldberg
<Hoping he got that right, and understandable>

[theskyhound]

Interesting case. Thanks!

[obrazell]

NGC numbers used to be in RA order but precession has altered some of those orders.

[cwlamison@sbcglobal.net]

ver 4.0j R19 Visual Pro

When doing a Designation Search for Pismis 27, in the "Search Results" box it returns Pismis 27, further down in "Data for Currently Selected Target" shows NGC 6882.


However, using the Designation Search tool for NGC 6882, it cannot find it. The top entry in the "Search Results" box is NGC 6885.
And looking at the Info for 6885, it shows the "Also Known As" NGC 6882.


In the Harold Corwin's NGC list he has 6882 and 6885 equal to each other.


Furthermore, if I'm not mistaken, NGC numbers are basically in RA hour order. 6882 is near the end of the hour order at 20H. And Pismis 27 is at hour 6H

So, should Pismis 27 be linked to NGC 6882 as an Alternate ID?

Steve Goldberg
<Hoping he got that right, and understandable>

Version 4.0.11.12
More NGC 6882 strangeness: see SkyTools finder chart attached showing NGC 6882 in the Monkey Head Nebula, NGC 2175, in Orion.
  NGC 6882 in Orion.pdf (Size: 1.36 MB / Downloads: 9)

Craig Lamison

[stormyfrom]

Really looking forward to the new updates. This is awesome Version 4.0.11.12

[PMSchu]

Hi stormyfrom,

You might want to check to see if you can get the 4.0.11.14 update. That's the latest update for ST4.1.11.14 Visual Pro. I think that ST4.0 will get that update too. That usually how Greg does the updates for ST4.

Phil S.

[theskyhound]

Hi stormyfrom,

You might want to check to see if you can get the 4.0.11.14 update. That's the latest update for ST4.1.11.14 Visual Pro. I think that ST4.0 will get that update too. That usually how Greg does the updates for ST4.

Phil S.

I suspect storyform is a spammer trying to gain moderation approval. We get a lot of that. If not, all he needs to do is to continue making posts that add some value to the forums.

If anyone is interested in updates: those are normally automatic, except for the first number, e.g. 4.0 vs. 4.1. The 4.1 is a paid upgrade. To see your upgrade options, select "Upgrade Your Product" via the top level Setup menu.

[PMSchu]

Darn, spammers spoil everything.

Phil S.

[parcelpacker]

ver 4.0j R19 Visual Pro

When doing a Designation Search for Pismis 27, in the "Search Results" box it returns Pismis 27, further down in "Data for Currently Selected Target" shows NGC 6882.


However, using the Designation Search tool for NGC 6882, it cannot find it. The top entry in the "Search Results" box is NGC 6885.
And looking at the Info for 6885, it shows the "Also Known As" NGC 6882.


In the Harold Corwin's NGC list he has 6882 and 6885 equal to each other.


Furthermore, if I'm not mistaken, NGC numbers are basically in RA hour order. 6882 is near the end of the hour order at 20H. And Pismis 27 is at hour 6H

So, should Pismis 27 be linked to NGC 6882 as an Alternate ID?

Steve Goldberg
<Hoping he got that right, and understandable>

Version 4.0.11.12
More NGC 6882 strangeness: see SkyTools finder chart attached showing NGC 6882 in the Monkey Head Nebula, NGC 2175, in Orion.

Craig Lamison

Hi everyone.

I see that the location of NGC6882 in Skytools 4 showing up in the environment of the nebula NGC2175 is still there.

According to the following sources NGC6882 should be located at 

Wolfgang Steinicke 18 October 2024 update  RA 20 11 40.6  Dec+ 26 32 54
Harold Corwin August 2021 update   RA 20 11 48      DEC +26 42.5
Steve Gottlieb's NGC notes  RA 20 11 58  DEC+26 29 00
SIMBAD  RA 20 11 48.0  DEC+26 49 00
CDS  RA  20 11 48.000 +26 49 1.20
NED  RA 20h11m55.8s +26d29m20s


In  Wolfgang Steinicke 18 October 2024 update he lists NGC2175S with the location of   RA 6 10 54.0   DEC + 20 36 36 which is pretty much where Skytools 4 puts NGC6882. 

If You search SIMBAD for NGC2175S you come up with Cl Pismis 27 -- Open Cluster located at  RA 06 10 52.6  DEC+20 37 01 which sends us back to Steve's original question at the top of this thread regarding Pismis 27. 

If you search for Pismis 27 in Skytools 4, it places it at RA 06 10 54  DEC +20 36 00 and also labels it as NGC6882.

So, is there a reason why is NGC6882 is still showing up in a location that contradicts all these other sources?


Thanks

Nick

[theskyhound]

[quote pid="15374" dateline="1740065260"]

So, is there a reason why is NGC6882 is still showing up in a location that contradicts all these other sources?

[/quote]

Hello,

I appreciate all of the additional information! But I don't think I understand your question. Obviously its an error in the database. There are millions of objects in the database. The NGC catalog is just one small catalog. It has been rife with errors for many decades (which is why the NGC/IC project was undertaken) and those errors have propagated to other catalogs. Even the members of the NGC/IC project don't always agree which object is which, so it takes some digging to get right. 

The data (magnitudes, sizes, etc) in SkyTools is drawn from many different catalogs (not just a version of the NGC) and when the original combination of data took place, an algorithm had to decide which object was which when multiple catalogs disagreed. Sometimes it made a decision that later investigation needs to reverse.

The SkyTools databases are an interconnected web of designation databases, and those same designations are also stored with each object. As a result, errors in the Database take time to fix. Its not a matter of simply editing a text file. I have many other things to do, so I make a list of fixes and then update the similar ones at the same time. I am also working an an update with many other, more important, fixes. One NGC number doesn't seem like it should be my main priority. I will fix this eventually.